A 15-year-old girl is removed from a Spirit Airlines flight due to overbooking, while her unbeknownst mother and brother sit in the back of the plane — and don’t realize until halfway through the flight. While it may sound like the scene out of a movie like Flightplan or Home Alone 2, a Michigan woman claims it happened to her. Stacy Giordano says she was flying with her daughter and son from Fort Lauderdale, Fla. to Detroit, Mich., in April of 2018, when the family had to switch planes in… (www.yahoo.com) 更多...
It's really time for airlines to stop de-boarding revenue passengers once they have taken a seat. Overbooking is not in itself bad, and probably necessary to keep prices reasonable, but swapping fare-paying pax after boarding is unacceptable.
This incident happened last April. It was legal at the time, but was outlawed in October. H.R.302/Public Law No: 115-254 says:
SEC. 425. TICKETS ACT. (a) Short Title.—This section may be cited as the “Transparency Improvements and Compensation to Keep Every Ticketholder Safe Act of 2018” or the “TICKETS Act”.
(b) Boarded Passengers.—Beginning on the date of enactment of this Act, a covered air carrier may not deny a revenue passenger traveling on a confirmed reservation permission to board, or involuntarily remove that passenger from the aircraft, once a revenue passenger has—
(1) checked in for the flight prior to the check-in deadline; and
(2) had their ticket or boarding pass collected or electronically scanned and accepted by the gate agent.
Doesn't matter if it was legal at the time, it's not something that should be done. Not in the United Airlines case and not in this one. Spirit was really derelict on this one as it involved a teenage girl, and posed a huge liability if something happened to her while alone at the airport. Would a Spirit exec think this was OK if it was his daughter? Yeah, didn't think so!
Spirit will pay way more than $75K for their lawyers fee for a trial. If they loose, a second lawyers fee, (the plaintiff's,), and whatever "Punitive" damages would be awarded by a sympathetic jury... Could easily cost them mid 6 figures.....
I'm not a lawyer or LEO but it strikes me that there could very well be criminal charges filed in this case. At what, point does something like this become kidnapping when there's a minor involved and there's no parental consent?
Dude, You probably have no children!!! Take MY 15 year old daughter away from my sphere of protection by FORCE, and kidnapping is the least of the charges I will find to bring against you. If anything were to go badly, even as small as the kid gets frightened enough to cry, and Child Abuse... would be be front and center of any LEGAL action... How I would react BEFORE I had legal council.... WHO KNOWS? There may even have been stripped sunlight in MY FUTURE at that point.
Sorry! your left wing is showing.... I don't think further comments will benefit this discussion. Suffice it to say It could have been escalated to the N'th degree by someone with the mind and skill set.
What CRIMINAL charges? There is nothing criminal about this, sloppy business, YES, criminal, NO, not if this wasn't done with harmful INTENT. This may have caused HARM, but it was NOT INTENT.
No parental consent for removal of a minor for one. Duty of care for a minor on their property (the plane) for another. Detaining and transport of a minor without guardian or parent present too.
The airline employee who refused to listen to the teen should be relegated to other duties if not fired. I agree, you do not separate families onto different flights due to your inability to find someone else to fly later as an airline.
On a different note, after reading through all the comments, I see the same thing here as I do in other places I frequent, failure to read said article/watch the relevant video(s) concerning said issue before commenting. That really is sad. Being informed as to what transpired is wonderful thing. Are there 2 sides to every story? Sure, but at least try to read the rest of the story instead of just the 3 lines of words that the page format allows in the original post.
I totally get the need to overbook. What I don't get, and hopefully someone here can smarten me up: exactly what makes a person who is, as yet, still in the terminal, more deserving of the seat than the individual already occupying it? Serious question ... how does the airline employee make that decision?
All airlines have a priority system. Things that can be considered are: Frequent flyer member? Time of check-in? Class of service paid for (more expensive classes for the same seat typically get priority).
Thanks for responding. I do wonder, though, what ever happened to "first come, first served", or "the early bird gets the worm", or "being on time" were what mattered? A far-flung example, though certain similarities: I rented an apartment, I signed a lease, I moved in. I was then told to get out, and was then replaced by someone who offered to pay more money, or that frequently rented apartments.
I know there has to be a way to accommodate pax, but certainly there must be a more palatable method.
Those determinations should be done before boarding though. A passenger already on board shouldn’t be removed. Most airlines said they were adopting this policy in light of the United incident.
SEC. 425. TICKETS ACT. (a) Short Title.—This section may be cited as the “Transparency Improvements and Compensation to Keep Every Ticketholder Safe Act of 2018” or the “TICKETS Act”.
(b) Boarded Passengers.—Beginning on the date of enactment of this Act, a covered air carrier may not deny a revenue passenger traveling on a confirmed reservation permission to board, or involuntarily remove that passenger from the aircraft, once a revenue passenger has—
(1) checked in for the flight prior to the check-in deadline; and
(2) had their ticket or boarding pass collected or electronically scanned and accepted by the gate agent.
Ok... that’s a kind of cryptic response. What instances would make it acceptable to board someone and then remove them? Wouldn’t boarding signal the cutoff for checking in, at which point they know who’s there and how many passengers they have to bump (if any)?
Acceptable by who’s definition. Legally it’s the entity writing the contract, in this case, Spirit. The decide and if you buy a ticket, you legally agree.
Where is it in the contract that they can remove you due to overbooking after they have admitted you on board?
Besides, I didn't make any reference to the contract - I said how I thought it should be, and from the response to the United incident, how most people thought it should be. Your response was basically a snarky way of saying "you're wrong but I don't feel like arguing". "Legal" or not, the airlines would do well to avoid these kinds of incidents considering how they're viewed by the public these days.
Time to crack down on the airline "overbooking" scam. If any other industry sold stuff it couldn't deliver, there'd be executives going to jail for fraud.
You obviously have never read any ticketing agreement that you agreed to when you bought tickets. There is no fraud. The ticket agreement that binds the customer says that they may be denied boarding for any reason by the carrier.
Now, is that bad business, maybe. But not illegal, as you wrongfully suggest.
"Denied boarding" boarding being the operative word, suggests not being given access to the interior of the plane or your assigned seat. The pax in question, was ensconced in the craft. and in her assigned seat.
"There is no fraud... not illegal, as you wrongfully suggest." Your reading comprehension needs improving. The OP said in "any other industry" it would be fraud.
It actually is illegal.... nevermind that the passenger HAD already been boarded. Denying after that fact is not only wrong, but illegal.
H.R.302/Public Law No: 115-254 says:
SEC. 425. TICKETS ACT. (a) Short Title.—This section may be cited as the “Transparency Improvements and Compensation to Keep Every Ticketholder Safe Act of 2018” or the “TICKETS Act”.
(b) Boarded Passengers.—Beginning on the date of enactment of this Act, a covered air carrier may not deny a revenue passenger traveling on a confirmed reservation permission to board, or involuntarily remove that passenger from the aircraft, once a revenue passenger has—
(1) checked in for the flight prior to the check-in deadline; and
(2) had their ticket or boarding pass collected or electronically scanned and accepted by the gate agent.
This doesn't surprise me in the least about Spirit Airlines.
My last flight on Spirit out of DFW. I witnessed the gate agent assigned exit row seating to a young Spanish/Hispanic family, while I am not trying to start a racist thread. You have to be able to understand English to seat in the exit row. Oh, did you "gloss" over the word "young"? It was a family of four. The two children one was about 1 years old and the other about 3....I think my mouth was as wide as the Flight Attendant when she came by and saw this. She didn't know spanish but another passenger translated to the family and found seats elsewhere on the plane.
Totally misguided comment. The airline in question is US-registered, flying out of a US airport and subject to FAA regulations. The "rest of the world" is irrelevant here.
Ok Spirit screwed up. They owned up to it and compensated the mom. If it were my kid, i'd be pissed too. But a freakin lawsuit? Come on. They've already been paid. It was a mistake. Move on
I’m not really seeing how Spirit owned up to it - nothing in the report says they apologized, just refunded the ticket and offered some miles (to customers who I’m sure want nothing to do with them ever again). I’m not a fan of frivolous lawsuits, but sometimes it’s the only way to get through to these sleazy companies.
This is just mind blowing! Training????? WTF has it to do with training? Do you need to be trained compassion - "My mother is on this flight", "Sorry, my training hasn't covered what to do when a PAX says this" - come on!
Also, what does "suffered $75k in damages" mean, did she charter another plan to go get her? Bad reporting - "she is sueing for $75k to let these arsehats know its wrong" would be more accurate. </rant>
For sure. We don’t kmow that this 15 year old didn’t volunteer to give up her seat for a later the flight same day and get some extra pocket money as well. Especially if she knew her Mom would never approve? Two sides to every story?
15 year olds are capable of telling the staff to notify their mother onboard that they are being taken off the flight! In fact, if she had spoken up that her family were already boarded, they would not have separated her from her family.
This 15 year girl may have been "trained" to be obeying all the uniformed adults. She may have unforseen mental or social "problems". Some people do not want to involve in problems.
Some airlines have a very defiant attitude. They can arbitrarily remove people and a minor at that. I am not an advocate for suing but in this case sue their balls off.
That is just insane. Tell the 'frequent flyer' they aren't flying that flight that day.
The insatiably lust for profit and deference being shown to the 'chosen few' is ridiculous. Will they say who's heels were so hot to be placed on that flight? Probably not, but that's still asinine... I hope they are sued for more than that. Send a message! If you have a seat, it's yours until you land. If big pocket fliers want to bump people, have them pump a pilot! (In other words, THEY WAIT!)
Everything was not good. The parent didn't know her daughter had been removed. That would create a little panic, don't you think? And then, of course, you also have the terror the teen was experiencing. How can you say everything was good !
1. We are hearing only one side of the story. 2. The side of the story we are hearing is second hand. 3. It is a lawyer telling the second handed one sided story.
Therefore, chances are very good that there is more to this story than has been reported.
You know I would be sueing for a whole lot more and then I would pursue criminal charges against the employees who endangered a child. I would drag it out until Spirit yelled uncle and keep it up until they had to close their doors. I would sue for hundreds of millions and no settlement. We would go to trial and the jury would award punitive damage. And don't talk to me about common carrier protection this is gross negligence and criminal. SPIRIT will never see my money. She needs a better lawyer.
What justice, Mr. Horton, would there be for the hundreds of the innocent airline employees who would the be unemployed should your wish that Spirit were forced to close its doors? I really don't get this degree of unjust rage.
I see, as expected some are not supporting my zeal. The airlines have been allowed to wander too far afield in there desire to be judge,jury and executioner. They were given one tiny step by the government and with the help of high paid lobbyist they have pursued a policy that makes them a government unto themselves. This bothers me as it should bother everyone. It should have been reigned in in the beginning but was allowed to charge head-on. It needs to stop but I can tell you it will not. It is just a precedent for future conduct by other industry. Think not? Study history. Airlines are a necessary component of our transportation system. I have had many pleasant experiences. That said placing passengers in danger by action or omission cannot be tolerated and should be punished. The only way to punish is to hit them heavily in the pocketbook. Placing the fear of criminal prosecution on employees will cause them to pause, think and find more creative solutions to the problems. In this case the first question from the mouth of the crew should have been "are you traveling with others?". However, the crew feels confident that whatever decision they make will be supported by the airline and smoothed over with a few meaningless miles and meal vouchers.
You might end up in the poor house before it would be all said and done. And even if you were rewarded with a win, it'd be lifetimes before the appeals would be exhausted. What you propose, IMHO, is just greed.
Not if criminal charges get attached to this. And I would certainly be pursuing those before a civil case. This is without a doubt child endangerment - and the ignorance of the flight and ground staff resulting in said endangerment just might put this in federal territory. Under absolutely no circumstance should this have happened. Not to mention that Overbooked or not - once the passenger is in the seat - it's theirs. Anyone else needing that seat should be benched and put on the next flight. Not the other way around.
I wasn't in any way, shape or form, suggesting the issue was one that shouldn't be litigated. I was, however, suggesting IMHO that Mr. Horton's enthusiastic pursuit of justice was somewhat over the top. Like I say - just my opinion. Whatever the outcome, it will be interesting.
Airline isn't at fault. What 15 year old wouldn't at least say to the staff, "Wait, tell my mom I won't be on the flight!!!" Or, "Wait, I have to tell my mom I'm getting kicked off!!!" What 15 year old wouldn't think to make sure her mother knew where she was???!!!
Did you not bother to read the story or watch the video? The girl reportedly did tell them her mother was in the back of the airplane, but no one would listen and told her she would be on the next plane out.
I posted on a comment below that I missed the "More" link to the rest of the story. (new to the forums) I couldn't delete my post or reply to it, so I just had to leave it and accept that I would be seen as a reactionary moron. :-/
This just doesn't sound right. 1) Ticket has seat number. 2) When was mother and daughter seperated? 3) Was the daughter handicap, that she couldn't ask where her mother/brother were when they were seated? 4) What kept the mother so busy that she lost track of her daighter? Just some questions that the Defense Lawyer definitely going to ask.
1) yes, it does 2) when they switched planes, mom/brotehr assigned to back of plane, daughter assigned to front 3) no 4) mom's phone was in airplane mode so daughter couldn't communicate to her.
All answered from reading the article posted.
not sure why she didn't try brother, but bro might not have had a phone. also, possible mom didn't see the daughter being removed due to other passengers settling into their seats.
I'm not finding it in the story now (maybe it was edited) but on earlier readings of the story I could have sworn it was stated that the brother was very young, 2-3 years old I believe.
I don't know any civil defense lawyers who would want to go anywhere near your ill-considered questions. Particularly number 4, which is answered, "I was told to fasten my seatbelt and not to leave my seat until after the seatbelt sign was turned off." "While I was trapped by this aircrew command, my daughter was forcibly removed from the plane without my knowledge or consent." "When I learned my little girl was missing from the plane I was frantic, I didn't know where she was, left in a strange place all alone and no way to contact her to see if she was safe." It gets even better from there as the mother begins to cry (rightfully so) over the loss of her child. There are also very good answers to the other 3 questions which place the responsibility on the airline. 1."Yes, the airline assigned the ticket seat number. 2. We were separated when the airline put us in different seats. 3 No, my daughter is not handicapped, this would have been even worse if I had a handicapped child thrown off the plane without my knowledge, but we sat where the airline told us we had to sit, we did not get a choice."
Mind if I ask what you think the parents did wrong in this case? The entire family was on board (and split up as Spirit tends to do), the daughter was booted, and the parents weren’t informed until it was too late to make other arrangements. I’m a strong proponent of personal accountability but I don’t see it lacking here.
I take back my comment in a previous sub-thread. THIS is the dumbest comment in the thread. Your ignorance of how criminal law applies in such a situation is likely to get you behind bars if you take some sort of action such as separating a child from their parent - regardless the venue. But please - go right on ahead and give it a whirl. I'll get some popcorn and a lawnchair.
You, srobak, have been hurling insults at people in almost every single post you've made here today. I can't help but remember my mom telling me - you get more with honey than vinegar. Think about it.
>>>>>“They didn’t want to hear anything. They just pulled her off the plane,” Thurswell claimed.
>>>>>“When the child says ‘my mother’s in the back of the plane, why are you taking me off?’ and they just take the child off and say, ‘sit here, you’ll be on the next flight out’ …You don’t just separate a child from their mother,” Thurswell told 7 Action News.
Now here is a really credible newsgroup....they never sign their name to an article just post it as Yahoo Lifestyle.
>>>>>Read more from Yahoo Lifestyle:<<<<<
Who is the author? W/O both sides of what happened how can comment....this story is clearly all one sided with Mom and Attorney "presenting the facts."
Spirit was given an opportunity to comment and declined. Spirit refunded the airfare and offered additional air miles. Not something they would have done if nothing wrong happened as you imply.
"Spirit was given an opportunity to comment and declined." When a lawsuit is filed, standard procedures for almost all companies are not to comment. You cannot responsibly draw the inference you are trying to from this observation. "Spirit refunded the airfare and offered additional air miles. Not something they would have done if nothing wrong happened as you imply." Not necessarily true, another poor assumption. Many companies will seek to offer 'good customer service', even if it means bending over backwards. I am not saying it definitely happened here, but I am saying that you cannot know for sure, either.
Seems the girl didn't care to let her mom know. Yes it would be nice if once boarded it's the end of the story. Especially since people routinely being bumped are the last ones on making it reasonable to figure any bumping would of already taken place.
You should probably try reading the entire story, especially the part about how she was not allowed to tell her mother (who was in the rear of the aircraft), and that her mother's cell was already in "airplane mode", as per the flight crew instructions.
If you know anything about modern media, you know that the lawyer would have made that VERY obvious in his play for public sympathy in his legal fight with Spirit. And the media, which seems to think its job is to incite peoples anger, would have put it in the story as well.
What a joke of a response from Spirit Airlines: "...refunded Giordano for a ticket and offered her extra miles." How about flying all three of them anywhere they want to go for an entire year?
That’s crap lady!! Sprit Air is one of the worst airlines currently flying. They could have asked some else!! They should have sued for a whole lot more. Actually, closing that airline would be the best thing!!
I am not a helicopter dad by any means but if I landed at my destination and my daughter wasn't on the plane and I had no info. about where she was. I would probably have a nervous breakdown and my wife would have to be sedated. The fact that she was separated from her family in the first place is b.s. I would not "deal with it" and once she was located and my anti-anxiety medication wore off I'd be on the phone with a lawyer.
I would not just get a lawyer. I would filing kidnaping charges against everyone responsible. You don’t separate kids from their parents especially if they are minors.
Quite possibly the dumbest comment in the thread right here. You clearly do not have children. Nor do you understand the 2nd rate or note - there is a significant element of criminality here. Kidnapping, child endangerment just to start.
what a vile act Spirit did here- some serious punishment ought to follow. They couldn't find a volunteer to exit the aircraft- they resorted to this outrage? It is not as if it is a priviledge to fly this airline, so-called low prices or not.
You are a pawn of the lawyers and the internet media which seeks to incite you for clicks in order to make money. Why do you assume what has not bee reported?
Can you imagine how many 15 year old teenagers would have loved this scenario being away from their parent (especially Mom in a girl's case) if they did not want to go on this trip? Ok..just a little light humor here........
Settlement suggestion: If I were the adults, I would ask for a 10 year deal-for all family members- to be treated like an airline employee for 10 years...fly tax only....anywhere... how about that!
"As compensation for the inconvenience and terror you caused to my family, I demand to be able to fly your airline exclusively for the next 10 years because it will be almost free."
No way I would settle for $75k. I'd be telling that airline that I want $500k, or we will have the most high profile court case possible. I would have my lawyer explain to them off the record that $500k is still less than it will cost them if I go public and manage to make it onto the television talk show circuit. I crying teenage girl on the news could be very bad for business.