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A380 does not work for United: CFO

提交时间：5 年以前

United Airlines chief financial officer John Rainey says the Airbus A380 “doesn’t really work” for the airline’s network, driving its preference for smaller widebodies like the Boeing 787. “We’ve looked at that and we are looking at it right now [but] it just doesn’t really work for us,” he says on the European superjumbo in an exclusive interview with Flightglobal in Chicago today. (www.flightglobal.com) 更多...

Nick Hesler

45 条会员评论

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Chris B 5 年以前 3

It isn't an aircraft that American based airlines which are domestic biased have been able to make sense. More internationally attentive airlines seem ok with the numbers they have. I'm just waiting for cheap airlines like Ryan to lease used units take them to max economy seat layout and fly the atlantic

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Nathan Quast 5 年以前 4

I think the A380 has served mostly to answer the question: "How big is too big?"

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Roger Deeringer 5 年以前 1

The reasons given are right down the line that was debated when the builders decided which way to serve the markets of, then the future, and those markets are in place today. Four engine, super jumbos only work in certain markets and United doesn't play there. In my opinion, the Persian Gulf hubs are the only major playground for the A380.

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Wolfgang Prigge 5 年以前 1

The A380 seems to be working quite well on the Europe to Johannesburg routes. Air France cancelled the A380 on the Paris-Montréal route where they couldn't fill the business class and switched them to Paris-Johannesburg. British Airways and Lufthansa also use A380 on their flights to J'burg.

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preacher1 5 年以前 1

Ain't Lufthansa running into SFO from somewhere over there or did they just bring that one in for show a few months back?

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Wolfgang Prigge 5 年以前 1

Yes, DLH454 is on an A380.

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preacher1 5 年以前 1

This certainly puts the kibosh on the other post about Airbus trying to put 2 into UAL on a trial basis.

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Ralph Arbeid 5 年以前 1

Air France, Lufthansa and British Airways are flying multiple flights per day to US destinations like JFK, LAX and others, with at least one of these flights serviced by the A380. The A380's are almost always fully booked because objectively it is a great plane. Therefore the arguments offered by the United FO are dictated by the preference for a US made plane rather than a European made plane. I thought United management would be more objective. Very disappointing

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djames225 5 年以前 2

I do not know where you got your info for A380's being almost always fully booked..If I have a craft that seats 850 people in it and its not 850 seats full, Im losing money..United does have an order in for Airbus A350 which can seat up to 440 people...and out of all the airports in the US, only 11 can handle and want the thing landing at their airport..remember, its not all about the aircraft itself, but about the logistics of their airports being able to/wanting to handle something that big

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jcsjcs 5 年以前 1

I think most A380 flying the Atlantic or Pacific will have around 600 seats. 850 is the maximum the A380 is certified for.

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djames225 5 年以前 1

Configurations of seats for Air France, BA and Lufthansa is around 510-525 seats..if u look down at the comment I made to Ralph, you can understand United and a number of other airline's thinkings.

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Ralph Arbeid 5 年以前 1

Hi, I tried to book (end July) on the AF A380 to LAX and both first and business class are full. I think they seat a total of 550 pax. I flew the 380 to HKG and fully booked, JNB the same.

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djames225 5 年以前 2

I am going to do some more digging but I found out some nifty things..Airbus is shooting themselves in the foot with the A350 the same wasy Boeing shot itself in the foot with the 777's vs the 747..Kudos big time to United for digging..the total cost per nautical mile to fly the A380 is a whopping $59.72 in the typical 525-545 seat layout..the A350 in seat capacity of 369 seats is #30.91..which means it can fly 738 people for $2.00 more per nautical mile and land at more airports than its big brother

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Wolfgang Prigge 5 年以前 1

A quick look at the number of seats on A380 as shown on SeatGuru gave me the following:

Qatar
First 8, Business 48, Economy 461, total 517

Air France
First 9, Business 80, Premium Economy 38, Economy 389, total 516

British Airways
First 14, Club World 97, Premium Economy 55, Economy 303, total 469

Lufthansa
First 8, Business 98, Economy 420, total 617

Quantas
First 14, Business 64, Premium Economy 35, Economy 371, total 484

Singapore
First 12, Business 60, Economy 399, total 471

Nowhere near 850 seats.

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djames225 5 年以前 2

We know..850 is max number Airbus is certified for..it was an analogy..interesting isnt it...you pay $320 million for an aircraft and only put in say BA 469 seats...oh and Lufthansa has 3 different configurations..the 1 u listed is 526 seats...I can buy 2 A350-800 (the smallest ) fill both planes with 552 people total (276 passengers typical layout in this craft), only costs me $305 to purchase both craft, cost less per nautical mile (still cheaper to fly both craft than 1 A380)

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Roger Deeringer 5 年以前 1

What is objective, is to fit the plane that best serves the market the company wishes to pursue. If the market demand is 3 turns of less than 200 seats, than a plane with 350+ seats is much too big. On the other hand if there is a 800 seat demand for each turn than the big boats make sense. Please stay with the business objectives and keep the nationalism out.

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Ralph Arbeid 5 年以前 1

Roger, why does none of the US airlines even look at the A380? All have the same business objectives?

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Roger Deeringer 5 年以前 2

The same reason they didn't buy the 747-8i. Large twins seem to make the most sense right now. Fuel is a major issue. Fleet commonality is another. It will be interesting to see if the A350 can cut the market against the 777-300er and the 787s.

One must remember the US domestic market is a big part of the US based airlines. That is something that is a much smaller part of the business in other areas. China is also going for the short to mid range twins. The era of the ultra huge, 4 engine fuel drinkers is about over. Yes, there will be a few heavy lift, long range opportunities available, but existing airframes may cover that for the near future.

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Ralph Arbeid 5 年以前 1

You made your point. I don't know the fuel consumption rate per pax per mile for the 350 against 787 or 380 but I thought that they pretty well are the same. Anyway let's see what Airbus will do to make the 380 attractive for US carriers

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Ulrich Dittforth 5 年以前 1

The A380 is a great airplain, maybe the best. But the airlines forgot, that the most pasenger use the economy. More comfort for first and business - yes, but the same bad seats in economy. Use better seats and fly with 100 pasengers less. that would be great, and the passengers would also accept a surcharge.

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Jon Van Staalduinen 5 年以前 0

Good for United
They clearly have some loyalty to Boeing and make an effort to make Boeing planes like the 787 a part of the future.

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preacher1 5 年以前 7

I think they have a loyalty to what makes sense dollar wise. They have some buses in their fleet, don't they?

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Jeremy Kudlick 5 年以前 1

They have a lot of 320-family airframes. In fact, prior to absorbing CAL's 737 fleet, they had replaced all of their 737s with 319s and 320s.

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Michael Wendt 5 年以前 0

I'm a United Airlines pilot and I thank God everyday that United management has not ordered any A380.

I believe when the history of the A380 is written (soon) it will be shown that Airbus never sold one at a profit and no airline made a profit over their whole period of ownership.

And I will predict that the last A380 will be built before 2020.

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djames225 5 年以前 1

I agree Michael...how many seats are filled on every A380 flight, what airports want them in, the total cost of the units (acquisition, fuel, airport allowance and maintenance)...I have a buddy at BA and he cant stand the tord

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jim entwistle 5 年以前 -1

Concorde being a case in point, yàll couldn't make it so slagged it off, too noisy too expensive yet they very nearly always flew full. And what caused the start of it`s demise ? a chunk of metal that fell off a US made jet !
Likewise a superb aircraft like the A380 gets slagged off or "buffed".
Might I just ask how many buffer duffers have actually experienced flying on/in a 380 ? take off and in flight ?.
Suck it up all you Boeing junkies, there are good/great planes being made this side of the pond.

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djames225 5 年以前 1

What the heck has that got to do with the article at hand??? United doesnt want a huge plane like the 380 when 2 smaller craft can do a better, cheaper job...oh and 1 of those jets is the A350

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JENNIFER JORDAN 5 年以前 0

One can never trust the utterances of a 'journalist' hence my post yesterday on this matter needs to be read post contextually.

However, I feel that UNITED passing this opportunity by, if there ever one existed, means someone else may take up the chance of trying the A380 before buying, a well used retail trick. Remember, once it's gone, it's gone!

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paul mosher 5 年以前 1

The only reason it will be gone is if no one buys it. I think uniyed understands their market and their equipment needs.

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preacher1 5 年以前 1

That probably at least mean that Airbus is or will be offering the same deal to someone else.

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JENNIFER JORDAN 5 年以前 0

If there is integrity in Aircraft business, others will have been watching and Airbus are so stupid as to omit others.

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siriusloon 5 年以前 0

"One can never trust the utterances of a 'journalist'..."

Riiiight, because sweeping generalisations are *always* correct.

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JENNIFER JORDAN 5 年以前 1

Look at recent judgments from UK courts, hacking proved whilst being denied, the United offer of A380 jets? Trusted journalism?

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Jon Van Staalduinen 5 年以前 0

Yup they do, no wide bodies yet but the article says they have orders for the 350.
Just flew on 320 from Chicago to Pearson
But the CFO reiterated how key the 787 was to them.

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Mike Boote 5 年以前 1

They have 35 A350-1000's on order with 40 options. Estimate deliveries start in 2018.

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Ralph Arbeid 5 年以前 1

Because the A350 is objectively the best plane in its segment

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preacher1 5 年以前 1

Well, I thought they did, just wasn't sure. I'm a thinkin that they just have the wide bodies on order to fill in delivery time on the 787's and the new 777x. Seems they have a few of those in the pipeline.

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Miles Fink 5 年以前 0

Why would someone even want just 2 of them? It would just seem odd because a long distantance route may require 2 planes. 1 route with planes like that is probably cost prohibitive.

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joel wiley 5 年以前 0

Just because it doesn't work economically, doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one or two.
attributed to Fabrice Bergier

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skyhawkrg 5 年以前 -1

The A380 takes the acronym BUFF away from the B-52 bomber.

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joel wiley 5 年以前 -1

Which 'F' is for 'French', the first or the second?

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Jeremy Kudlick 5 年以前 0

I think it's missing an 'F' - BUFFF. :)

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高烽 5 年以前 -2

flightA380

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skyhawkrg 5 年以前 -3

Big Ugly Fat F---er

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joel wiley 5 年以前 2

Since BUFF is an already established FLA, may I suggest you use BUFFF, a different FLA.

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