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48

Allegiant Air: The budget airline flying under the radar

提交时间：大约 1 年以前

Steve Kroft investigates Allegiant Air, a discount carrier known more for its ultra-low fares than its high record of in-flight breakdowns (www.cbsnews.com) 更多...

71 条会员评论

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Vicente Collazo 大约 1 年以前 4

This reminds me of Value Jet. There was a long list of pilot and mnx screw ups prior to that fatal accident in the Everglades. Ever since that incident a couple of years ago where an Allegiant plane flew to an airport that was notamed closed and the notam had been out for over a week, resulting in the pilot declaring an emergency since he didn't have the fuel for an alternate, I have been advising friends and family not to use them. As an experienced chief of Wing safety and accident investigator, I know where this is headed, and it ain't good!

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sparkie624 大约 1 年以前 2

Agreed!

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ken young 大约 1 年以前 3

In my humble opinion...There is no possible way to operate a commercial passenger air carrier with cut rate ticket prices and maintain "by the book" maintenance and safety procedures.
The costs are simply to great to allow the books to be balanced and allow the carrier to turn a profit.
Something HAS to give.
Do the math.
It is well within the realm of possibility that the LUV engine fail, Allegiant's alleged safety and maintenance issues, etc are merely scratching the surface.
It is my contention, using logic and a good dose of cynicism, that there are many things that do not get done by the book. There is fudging of records. There are repairs performed with less than the highest standards.

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ken young 大约 1 年以前 3

This is scary. Allegiant flies to/from this airport. It's a small regional about 15 nm north of KCLT.
Note the length of the runway.
One issue. RWY 20 is indicated 7400 feet. However, the approach is over a roadway which is about 50 feet above the end of the runway.
The other end of the airport property is bordered by a heafvily populated residential and retail area. https://flightaware.com/resources/airport/JQF/APD/AIRPORT+DIAGRAM/pdf
https://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KJQF/map/satellite

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C. WESLEY GRADY 大约 1 年以前 9

After the crash of 592, ValuJet merged with AirTran and operated under that name until acquired by Southwest, in 2011 and integrated into that carrier. One of the co-founders of ValuJet and the principal architect of the "Low Cost" airline concept, Maury Gallagher is the CEO of Allegiant. He is reined in by the Pilot's union, but his penchant for poor maintenance and putting pressure on employees to ignore defects is one of the reasons behind the problems at Allegiant. Neither I, nor anyone I care about will ever step through the doors of an Allegiant plane. I don't think I would even let my ex-wife fly on Allegiant.

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bizprop 大约 1 年以前 3

The Valujet crash was due to a contractor loading cargo incorrectly. I had nothing to do with the aircraft maintenance.

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Francis Moine 大约 1 年以前 4

A contractor doesn't just pull up to the plane and start stuffing things in the cargo bins. The airline's personnel has the responsibility to inspect and insure it is safe and conforms to the regs. I once had a crew chief refuse a load because in his opinion it was not properly packaged. I went down the jetway and thanked him personalty for keeping my crew and passengers safe. I wonder if that would have happened if Mr Gallagher had been in charge.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 2

Actually you are wrong..nothing to do with the way it was loaded, and it does have to do with maintenance! SabreTech WAS ValuJet's maintenance contractor at the time and they were the 1's responsible for removal and retrofit of oxygen generators into ValuJet's aircraft..the were also the 1's responsible for the crash as it was they who falsified the documents to the cargo's contents..this former mechanic, Mauro Valenzuela, is still being hunted as a fugative.

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FlyYX 大约 1 年以前 0

Looks like I can't argue with stupid. Don't believe everything you can Google.

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Francis Moine 大约 1 年以前 2

Well done FlyYX. If you can't argue cogently go to personal insults.

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FlyYX 大约 1 年以前 2

Like I said I deal with it every day at work. I have a memo on my desk right now that a PSU unit was shipped COMAT it has 2 oxygen generators still in it.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

It wasnt loaded improperly..it was packed improperly..next time you want to insult folks, get your own facts straight, and be around at the time the incident they referred to, happened!!!

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sparkie624 大约 1 年以前 -1

There is no proper way to pack a fully charged chemical o2 generator... They cannot be shipped by passenger carrying airliner... They are the highest level of Hazmat. If they get activated, they get very very hot and can cause fire to other stuff around them. Sure it was not packed correctly, but there is no way to pack it correctly. They were supposed to be empty and the person who had them loaded on the plane thought that they were. this was the contractors fault.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

Hence packed improperly..you do not indicate, on the labels affixed, they are empty when they are not. The proper way was to indicate they were used but possible active..then they get refused and sent ground transit..the contractor WAS ValuJet's maintenance company, NOT the rampees.

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FlyYX 大约 1 年以前 0

If I could post pictures on here I would show you how they come when we get them here. When they are close to expiring they are removed from the aircraft discharged and picked up buy Hazmat Disposal Company.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

And that was done by ValuJet's maintenance company..a company that had issues prior to this but 1 that ValuJet stayed with..another thing I forgot to mention..didn't the maintenance company also fudge the contents of the cargo. Again this is NOT the rampees fault. And this is the whole issue..it was maintenance issue, not the loaders issue.

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sparkie624 大约 1 年以前 -1

Exactly... and that is what is supposed to happen!

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Robert Artac 大约 1 年以前 0

You obviously aren't familiar with HAZMAT will not carry vs will carry and the responsibilities of each.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

Very familiar with HAZMAT..also familiar with fudged paperwork, this time it was carried out by ValuJet's maintenance company and why that Mauuro skunk ran.

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ken young 大约 1 年以前 1

Actually it was the unlawful carriage of )2 generators which were in the VJ aircraft's cargo hold.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/hazmat/regulation_policy/media/dgab_96-01.pdf

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

ValuJet maintenance company fudged the paperwork..why do you think Mauro, maintenance mechanic at Sabertech, ran and is still an EPA and FAA fugative.
ValuJet knew what kind of maintenance work Sabertech did.

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ken young 大约 1 年以前 1

I covered the basics. You filled in the details. Both are correct.
Thanks

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btweston 大约 1 年以前 1

That's what I do when I allow something to slip through the cracks. I just say, "Someone else loaded my plane. Not my fault."

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Andrew Turnbull 大约 1 年以前 2

If you had read Roy's comment properly, you'd have noted that he didn't just summarily dismiss anything with "Not my fault." He made a specific, discrete comparison: cargo loading vs. aircraft maintenance. Whatever other fault may lie with the CEO, Roy's comment is exactly right: it was a loading issue (and all that that implies), NOT an aircraft maintenance issue.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 0

And if you had read bt's comment properly, and I do not know the person nor defending him but, you would have seen the what was implied "Someone else loaded my plane. Not my fault." He mentioned nothing about aircraft maintenance. I however will "Someone else repaired my plane. Not my fault." The CEO AND airline he represents are responsible for both.

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FlyYX 大约 1 年以前 0

This happens all the time with cargo companies and airlines. Ie The UA cargo in DEN is a 3rd party company.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

No it does not happen all the time because the airline watches how the cargo is loaded.

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FlyYX 大约 1 年以前 0

No they do not they may look at the label on the box to see how much it weighs if there is no weight they will reject it for w&b. But they do not inspect the package so if it is Hazmat in a regular box it will go on the plane when it is not supposed to. But what do I know I only work for an airline.

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FlyYX 大约 1 年以前 2

And now it is a lot of ramp employees are third party companies and not Airline employees just like the Value Jet crash. The employee that loaded the oxygen generators on the aircraft work for a third party company after the crash they never found him he went back to Mexico.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

I too worked for an airline and if you noticed I didn't say what, I said HOW. There have been 3rd party rampees for a long time and the airlines DO watch how cargo is loaded. My comment about the CEO baring responsibility, at least partial, still stands.
"The employee that loaded the oxygen generators on the aircraft work for a third party company"..had nothing to do with the rampee loading and DID have to do with Valu-Jet maintenance company SabreTech, which had been known to be not good BUT ValuJet still used them. SabreTech and a few its employees and brass were responsible and that person you referred to, Mauro Ociel Valenzuela-Reyes, was the aircraft mechanic. And another thing, he wasn't from Mexico !

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 1

It had everything to do with ValuJet not supervising the loading of those oxygen generators and ValuJet had a record of bad safety practices before that crash. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's still a duck be it the CEO of ValuJet or CEO of Allegiant.

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RECOR10 大约 1 年以前 -3

The best part IMO is their marketing..."Fly from Chicago to Orlando for $20.00" or what ever dollar figure. In reality you fly from Rockford to Sanford...both at a minimum FAR over an hour to get to either city...They also market Sanford as being "Daytona Beach"...

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Dave OBrien 大约 1 年以前 1

That's the RyanAir business model in the EU as well: London to Rome* [* actually Stansted to some deserted military airfield]

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pat prendergast 大约 1 年以前 1

I presume you have never been to London Stansted, it's a superb Airport with a great public transport link from London and Cambridge in about 30minutes not unlike Heathrow and Gatwick which is about the same. Ryanair has over 50 aircraft based there that will take you to most European cities, in fact, I am off to Mallorca on Tuesday with Ryanair from Stansted for less than £50 return one of many flights I make from there every year and your glib remarks are inaccurate and unfair to both Stansted and Ryanair.

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Dave OBrien 大约 1 年以前 2

7 out of 10 or your comments on this site are defending/praising Ryanair. That's a very high ratio. You are either a paid shill, an unpaid shill, or a troll.

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bizprop 大约 1 年以前 5

Nothing new here than hasn’t been reported before. CBS is about two years to late to the party. The majority of the problems Allegiant had were with their MD80’s. These are being retired and replaced by a fleet of both new and used A320 & A319’s. So what if Allegiant outsource their maintenance and buy used aircraft. Airlines such as Delta and Southwest also outsource maintenance to AAR and buy and operate used aircraft. You have a choice and if don’t want to fly on them you don’t have to. Allegiant have brought affordable direct flights to many communities under served by the the big three and the other LCC’s. They’ve been under the scrutiny of the FAA for sometime due to these previous problems and no major violations have been found. Any issues that were found have been addressed quickly by Allegiant to the FAA’s satisfaction.

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Brian James 大约 1 年以前 3

Reported two years late or not, an airline with three times as many incidents as others seems like a crap shoot when it comes to arriving in one piece.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 2

Delta (Delta TechOps) and Southwest also have their own tech shops as do most other airlines..not all is outsourced, nor should it be. ie find it, fix it before it breaks.
BTW, this is not about tooting Allegiant as a good or bad carrier.. If you enjoy flying with them, have at it, and if CBS was years late to the party, why did all those interviewed not say "no comment"?

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Jamar Jackson 大约 1 年以前 3

Allegiant doesn’t have a tech shop like Delta or American to keep those Mad dogs in tip top shape.

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Thomas Cain 大约 1 年以前 1

Allegiant handles it's maintenance through a 3rd party service provider named AAR.

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ROBBIE MALLON 大约 1 年以前 2

Southwest subs lots of MX to a 3rd party in El Salvador

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 2

As stated before, it does not have its own tech shop for maintenance checks..sure AAR does MRO, but most other big airlines have tech shops for minor repair and routine spot checks. Allegiant does not.

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Kenneth Schmidt 大约 1 年以前 -1

The MD's are being replaced. In time the mechanical issue will improve.

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Brian Neuman 大约 1 年以前 2

The Airbus fleet is also old. Regardless of the MD's, old planes break down more. Ive flown them once, I will never fly them again. And I was on an Airbus.

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Thomas Kerwin 大约 1 年以前 1

Yeah replacing them with used aircraft from third world countries. Then Allegiant buys a few new planes to market the fact they are upgrading their fleet. What a great business model for an airline to follow...oh well they are from Las Vegas their decisions are made with a roll of the dice!!

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Paul Claxon 大约 1 年以前 1

My point, any crashes ?

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ROBBIE MALLON 大约 1 年以前 -1

Well said! Show did not mention that fleet is under renewal with newer (and some brand new) planes

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[This poster has been suspended.]

matt jensen 大约 1 年以前 -1

Don't see Pintos do you?

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ToddBaldwin3 大约 1 年以前 1

I drove one, till it went up in flames.

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paul gilpin 大约 1 年以前 0

if you are going to bring flames into the discussion, you are going to have to incude tesla.

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RECOR10 大约 1 年以前 -6

Next they will claim the Fusion is an American built car......(its Mexican)

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Michael Quinn 大约 1 年以前 3

Not all Fusions are/were made in Mexico. My sons Fusion was made in Flat Rock MI.

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RECOR10 大约 1 年以前 -3

:-) Sorry. Not as if I would ever purchase an American car companies car. At least Ford is really a mostly American company (and did not use the Govt. welfare). I will stick to German and Italian where they understand a car needs to have soul )

BMW, Subaru and Toyota all build in the US as well - only in "Right to Work" states.

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paul gilpin 大约 1 年以前 3

any idea where those VWs were built. you know, the ones that were programmed to cheat on the emissions tests?

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vector4traffic 大约 1 年以前 1

So why did the FAA switch their priorities from enforcement to compliance 3 years ago?

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sparkie624 大约 1 年以前 -2

Beats me! Probably the same reason that SWA got in trouble with the Feds... Lining Pockets!

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ron jay 大约 1 年以前 1

Scary stuff. Must be a nightmare for crews too

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Brian James 大约 1 年以前 1

Reminds me of the FAA attitude when the DC-10 was having problems with the cargo doors and floors collapsing...United and American almost lost planes, Turkish Airlines had one of the worst disasters in history, killing 346. The FAA did pretty much nothing until those 346 people died. Hopefully it's not the fate of Allegiant or it's passengers.

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Charles Peele 大约 1 年以前 1

I'll never forget the horror of VALUE JET (ALLEGIANT's predecessor) in the Florida Everglades. Changing the name on the fuselage without honest, tight maintenance was never the way to run a railroad nor air line! Looks like it's caught up to you!........CTP

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silverio califano 大约 1 年以前 1

Just so you get your facts straight, Value Jet did not become Allegiant Air, they became Air Tran, which merged with Southwest Airlines.

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rapidwolve 大约 1 年以前 -1

Yes they became Air Tran BEFORE Southwest bought them...and then tossed out the trash. You could infer they were Allegiant's predecessor.same CEO of both.

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ken young 大约 1 年以前 1

Infer? IN what way? Other than the guy's name on the door, can you provide evidence that these two named carriers are but one in the same?

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Paul Claxon 大约 1 年以前 -1

Have any crashed ?

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pjshield 大约 1 年以前 2

Not yet, just very close but no cigar.

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Dave Main 大约 1 年以前 1

Beside the point...

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sparkie624 大约 1 年以前 0

luck favors the foolish

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Robert Artac 大约 1 年以前 0

Great Lakes with jets.

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Thomas Kerwin 大约 1 年以前 0

I cannot figure out why the FAA did not at least temporarily suspend their certificate in light of all the emergency landings they made and even tried to land at an airport that was listed as closed in the NOTAMS. Doesn't look good for Allegiant or the FAA.

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sparkie624 大约 1 年以前 -3

In my opinion, Allegiant is not much higher in my opinion that SWA... I have seen maintenance issues on their planes, and used to work with a Maintenance Controller who could tell good horror stories.

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Patty Madden 大约 1 年以前 1

I would be interested in hearing a few ....

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pjshield 大约 1 年以前 -1

As the major airlines are beginning to scramble for experienced pilots and flight attendants, many of the current pilots and F/As will dump Allegiant for better wages, working conditions and benefits. Then Allegiant will have low time, inexperienced pilots flying minimally maintained airplanes. Sounds like it will be a tragic incident just looking for a place to happen. I won't be flying Allegiant anywhere, anytime!

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