Can The Airline Industry Survive Climate Change?

← Back to Squawk list

Can The Airline Industry Survive Climate Change?

提交时间：7 年以前

Commercial airliners pump out 2.5 percent of total global warming gasses. The “flight-shaming” movement now sweeping Europe shows signs of driving would-be air passengers to other modes of transport. (www.forbes.com) 更多...

Cal Keegan

93 条会员评论

Sort type: [Top] [Newest]

Edward Bardes 7 年以前 22

The modern world is too dependent on air travel to move away from it.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

John Miller 7 年以前 14

True, but more efficient engines and aircraft designs are a good thing.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Edward Bardes 7 年以前 4

Absolutely.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bob Poberezny 7 年以前 3

Yeah, but a 100% efficient machine is worthless without some energy to run it.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

indy2001 7 年以前 26

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." This statement was true when Mark Twain wrote The Innocents Abroad in 1869 when most people lived their entire lives within a few miles of their birthplace, and it's even truer today in our mobile society. Although the airlines and aircraft manufacturers must continue to do everything possible to reduce carbon emissions, travel is far too important to reduce drastically.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Bob Poberezny 7 年以前 6

The most overlooked fact is that fossil fuel reserves are far from infinite. At some point they will be depleted to where the ROI makes them unusable. At this time, we are nowhere close to a technology that will make it possible to use any other energy source for airplanes...or cars. Even if we manage to overcome electric energy storage limitations, the energy to charge batteries still has to come from somewhere. I won't hold my breath waiting for someone to figure out how to run an airliner on nuclear or coal power.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Jim Pennington 7 年以前 1

If the oil dries up, then the likely alternative for aviation is biofuels. There have already been demonstration flights with aviation biofuels in airliners with ratios as high as 60/40.

Also, there are some technologies that may be right around the corner that will allow us to harvest the carbon from the air and turn it back into a fuel that we can burn. If green energy sources can be used to power that equipment, we can have a fuel source that is completely carbon neutral.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Jim Pennington 7 年以前 1

Here's an article that even mentions fueling airplanes... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-company-says-it-is-sucking-carbon-from-air-making-fuel-1.4696817

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

John Smythe 7 年以前 8

If a dinosaur farts near a volcano, and it ignites, does that count as a CO2 emission?
Ive tried Goggling it and for some strange reason there’s nothing. Hmmmm

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 4

Check cow farts. The climate fanatics are all over that.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

John Smythe 7 年以前 2

I have to admit that farts do indeed count. Maybe we should all (7.5 billion of us) just stop farting around and work on saving our sorry asses. If everyone does just a little bit, we will accomplish just a little bit. Think big if you want (need) big change.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Jan Halvarson 7 年以前 4

It is difficult to believe a fact when one's paycheque depends on not knowing it.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Aerosols/page2.php

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

bbabis 7 年以前 8

YES.
Next question.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

scott8733 7 年以前 8

Appropriately- the term 'flight shaming' was in quotation marks. I'll quote Oscar Wilde:

"The old believe everything, the middle-aged question everything, and the young know everything".

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Andrew Turnbull 7 年以前 11

Better question: can mankind survive climate change fanatics and hysterics?

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 4

Amen

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 2

Andrew , Thanks for your reply . I appreciate it . They are fanatics and hysterical right now because the situation is urgent , and those in power and others that chose not to believe . I have likened this debate to the ultimate poker game . If the non-believers are right , than no harm done . If the non-belivers are wrong , by the time they realize it , the planet will be un-savable . And all of my grand children will ask me and all of us old farts " What the hell where we thinking " . I can't take that risk . Please have an open mind Andrew . Thats all i ask . Talk to your kids . It is their futures that are on the line . Thanks for writing ......Yours Truly ...DGR

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 4

When the fanatics can control earthquakes and volcanoes, get back to me.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Philip McNiel 7 年以前 3

Why would I ask my generation's kids or grandkids? They, like Greta Thunberg, are not old enough to remember when climate scientists said the north polar icecap would be gone at least part of the year as early as 2006, so they don't have the healthy skepticism that comes from having heard a pattern of failed doomsday predictions.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Thomas Scally 7 年以前 3

No real science to back up your BS. Don't scare your grand kids by drinking the cool aid.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Leonardo Goes 7 年以前 0

You unfortunately will survive, your kids or the kids of them will not.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 4

Leonardo , i do not if you are replying to my post , but i will accept that you are . While i admitted 2 things , Airlines should be considered essential services , and that i accept climate change , is not un-acceptable . I am just trying to acknowledge that certain services are essential . But as for my Grand children and my niece and nephews families , i am terrified for them . They too are scared for their children . You are right ...i'm an old fart that will not live to witness " Soylent Green " , but it does not mean i am uncaring and selfish . Thanks for your comment . I appreciate it ..........DGR

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Thomas Scally 7 年以前 1

You wont be around to know if your unfounded prediction came true

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Daniel Stein 18 天以前 2

There's more to survive than climate change. Worry about that later.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

WhiteKnight77 7 年以前 2

What people often fail to realize that there are other avenues that will be even worse. Are we as a species going to return to the days of sail to get across oceans that would take a couple of weeks? are we going back to ocean going liners that pollute even worse than planes as well as in some instances, dump sewage overboard (Carnival got busted over that: https://www.ft.com/content/8bceef94-86cd-11e9-a028-86cea8523dc2 )?

I seriously doubt anyone will give up getting to Australia from the US in 16-22 hours or from Frankfurt to Chicago in 6-8 hours and no sewage getting dumped overboard.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Peter McDevitt 7 年以前 6

In case you missed it, the Earth's climate has never EVER been static. NEVER! Haven't you read about the Ice Age?
This entire exercise is a colossal waste of time and resources. In the final analysis we will learn that this is nothing more than an exercise in re-ordering the economic structure of the world in the name of a hoax.
On the subject of carbon; Carbon is an essential element in our existence and in our environment. Avoiding it or diminishing it is hazardous to our survivable. Trees require carbon for growth and growing leaves. Trees give us canopy, which provide us with protection from the sun. Leaves, when they fall, provide us with soil which provide a base to grow our crops and become part of the food chain. Eliminate trees? Have you been to Africa or South America where the clear cutting has resulted in arid and unusable land.
I could go on but, hopefully you get the picture.
"It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" and that's exactly what the Climate Change people are trying to do but their real motive is in restructuring our economies.
Knock it off

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Greg S 7 年以前 10

At the scientist level it's certainly not a hoax. It may be a mistake, but it's not a hoax. The manner politicians spin the science may be hoax. The way "greenhouse" gases trap certain frequencies of solar radiation is not a theory, it is settled science. It's also not new idea, it's been around for at least 100 years. Without this greenhouse effect the earth would likely be unlivably cold. The climate change question centers around what how the additional greenhouse gases added to atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial age may affect the climate. Disentangling the effect of this from the natural processes that change the climate is actually very hard. Long before the industrial revolution the earth experienced phenomenal climate change, an enormous global warming. And you can't avoid or diminish carbon other than minuscule amounts in nuclear power and nuclear explosions. The issue is that we're moving carbon that is trapped in the ground into the atmosphere in a form that can magnify the greenhouse gas effect.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Lee Dilley 7 年以前 3

Well stated. I would really appreciate your recommendation of a scientific paper or other source that clearly explains the mechanism of the atmosphere trapping certain frequencies of solar radiation.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Greg S 7 年以前 1

Here are two links: The first one is at a relatively high level, the second has more technical detail about frequencies.

1. https://scied.ucar.edu/longcontent/greenhouse-effect

2. https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/101017/

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Peter McDevitt 7 年以前 1

The 'accepted' science is actually not true. The accurate description is 'consensus' of scientists. What does that mean? Well, it puts it in the category of, Maybe.
There is an excellent book, "A Disgrace to the profession" written by Mark Steyn which in plain understandable layman's language the entire argument. It is very well written and a compelling read. I highly recommend it. In fact it should be required reading in our educational system

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 1

Except science lied about the actual temperature changes do it appears we're hearing up.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Mike Mohle 7 年以前 2

CO2 = Plant Food.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 1

Climate changes on MARS - NO PEOPLE!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 1

well then , your cheering on the coming ice age . Either way we are all dead . Don't you want to try and prevent a catastrophe ? Why are you seeing conspiracies around every corner ? I will never give in to your beliefs . I will try to understand them , but your premise is wrong .............So , what now ? .

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

What if your premise is wrong DGR?

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Edward Bardes 7 年以前 1

Are you proposing that we should all gather in one place, form a huge circle, and on an agreed signal all cap the person to the right?

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bennett 7 年以前 8

One thing about climate change. It absolutely made Al Gore rich!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 3

Off sets ? A statistical method of moving # or % around in a desired way , to show that the Carbon Off Set works . Some time ago i worked with Statistics , and quickly realized that if the # or % are massaged one can get a very impressive result that proves what your Boss wants to see . BUT , aero- engines pollute . It is a basic fact . Thats a given , and it is the cheapest way to propel an aircraft . In an other article today there is the talk of the Electric flight in B.C. Yes electric motors work . But required so many heavy batteries there is no room for passengers and baggage . I have this thought , that if ICAO and IATA , persue a course off forever finding cleaner fuels , and Engine manufacturers continue making the most fuel efficient engines possible ,maybe the Airline industry could be cut some slack on the pollution file . When you get right down to it , there just aren't any options and society needs this service . Just so you know i am a Environmentalist and believe in Climate change , but society can't just ground such a vital transportation method .......Thats my 2 Cents worth . I'd love to hear from others about this ...........DGR

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 3

Truly sad that a small group of fanatics can convince the world that we are close to the extinction. Climate has been changing since the earth was created. Man cannot control it. Climate change happens on Mars - WITHOUT PEOPLE.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Absolutely. This climate change frenzy is absolute bullshit.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

linbb 7 年以前 2

The earth has been warming since it started to thaw nothing new and its going to continue. Get over the hype all it is someone making money off of it at the cost to taxpayers

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Mike Mohle 7 年以前 9

It will be till the next Ice Age when 1/2 of the N Hemisphere will be under a mile of ice. Then, you won't be able to take off or land anyway. LOL

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Yep!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

gorbush 7 年以前 -1

You are wrong. In reality Erath's core is cooling all the time. That will also inevitably happen to it's Surface like on Mars.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-activity-and-the-so-called-little-ice-age

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Thomas Scally 7 年以前 2

Erath's core should cool in about 100 million years. Have a beer.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Tyler Emtage 7 年以前 0

I think the headline should be, "Can The Airline Industry Survive Something That Doesn't Exist?"

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Leonardo Goes 7 年以前 9

Quick, get your aluminum hat!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Indeed Tyler.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

jeff slack 7 年以前 0

A better question would be will the Industry survive any Government regulations based on climate change?

The industry will not survive Climate Change as the world changes due significant flooding and extremes in weather...............where does a plane land if impacted by weather events (?) how are schedules maintained (?) how will passengers make their flights if highways are flooded or loaded with a layer of snow and ice (?) or the heat is so intense the air does not provide lift under the wings (already happening in Australia).................the stupidity here is breathtaking.

There is a much bigger picture here and one most do not want to see; all the while thinking the Black Friday sales will continue regardless, Facebook will continue to function and your family will not be affected.

People like @linbb with their smug comment below is correct; the world has been warming for years.

However, we turned the burner up from simmer to high and we are not doing anything to moderate the pot that is about to boil over.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

VKSheridan 7 年以前 9

@jeff - You accuse @linb of being smug preceded by the comment, “the stupidity in here is breathtaking”, This is a great example why any conversation on the subject struggles. If an opinion is different than one’s own, the author must be smug or stupid. Your words, not mine.

I don’t think anyone denies climate change. It is self evident from the existence of the expansion and contraction of the ice age to the existence of a petrified forest in the Arizona desert. The climate is changing and what we once considered predictive weather patterns are being viewed as less predictive.

The debate arises from the assertion that man is in control of climate change.

One corner says we are causing it, another corner says we are a strong contributor, another corner says we can change it and the last corner disagrees with them all. Each opinion gets amplified with sensationalistic comments under the misguided belief that if the music is blasted, everyone will not just hear the lyrics but will understand them.

Reducing carbon emissions isn’t a bad thing but choking a person to lower their exhale won’t get them to agree.

I have an opinion on climate change like everyone else. It is statistically certain the other three corners will disagree since my opinion won’t mirror their own so I will respectfully abstain from sharing it. Of course, I’ll be called stupid and smug for not exposing myself to opinion shaming but hey, no biggie.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Ray Toews 7 年以前 2

Well stated.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Well said VK. That's exactly the way I see it.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

bentwing60 7 年以前 19

Well, let's see. 44 and crew just paid just shy of 12 mil. for a beech front property on Martha's Vineyard. My home sits at 640' above sea level. If he ain't worried about it, I will certainly not rush out to buy sand bags. And I am still drivin' a 96 Tahoe with 245,000 miles on it at 15 to the gallon. down vote, show anyway.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

James Simms 7 年以前 0

01 Dodge Ram 1500 w/134,500 miles on it, 10.whatever in town. It is a lot cheaper than a vehicle payment every month. I do admit to looking @ something more suited for in town where I do 99.9% of my driving, & no; I’m not looking for an all electric or hybrid. I’ll never have another “new” vehicle ever again.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Greg S 7 年以前 1

Your comment assumes that either these changes will happen overnight or they will happen gradually and somehow we'll be unable to adapt. But assumptions are wrong.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Mark Gaines 7 年以前 0

Where in Australia does the intense heat prevent planes from flying? I have lived here for 60 years, involved in the airline industry and travel constantly by plane throughout our continent, this is a new one on me...

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Byron Russell 7 年以前 1

Not Australia, but I lived in the Phoenix, AZ, are for a number of years. In the mid-90s, just before we moved there, I recall hearing that Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport cancelled flights one day because of the heat. Summer highs of 110+ F are not uncommon and don't affect flight operations. That summer they had a few days in the mid-120s. I think there was only one day when flights were affected and I don't recall it happening again since. One day in the last 25 years.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

David Medders 7 年以前 1

Cancellations were for lack of performance data at those high ambient temperatures.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Exactly!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bruce Bilbrey 7 年以前 1

There have been numerous articles indicating that less than .5 of one percent of climate change is man caused from all sources. Climate change has and will continue to occur throughout history!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 2

not worthy of reply

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Yep DGR. I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Thomas Scally 7 年以前 0

Neither are you

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Mike Mohle 7 年以前 2

Amen Brotha! When our sun dies and keeps getting larger it will finally swallow the earth, that will really be Global Warming--without any evil people having anything to do with it.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Ray Toews 7 年以前 -3

It is heat. C02 is smoke and mirrors. What does a ton of Co2 look like?

Try not producing HEAT. Go ahead, show me one human activity that doesn't produce heat?

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 3

flapping gums

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

John Smythe 7 年以前 3

I know some people who have flapped their gums so much that my ears started to bleed

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Thomas Scally 7 年以前 1

You

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

brad friesen 7 年以前 1

I believe in "Climate Change".
Here is a documentary made quoting scientists in the 1970s.
Aren't we suppose to be in the new Ice Age now?

Enjoy

https://youtu.be/zSDLRm3jhc8

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

paul gilpin 7 年以前 2

i am amazed, amazed i tell you, that the whack jobs at youtube allow that video to remain.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

bizprop 7 年以前 -2

This is nothing more than a big power and money grab by Government. Always looking for new ways to get their hands in our pockets.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Tom Morris 7 年以前 1

The industry can probably survive climate change, but I wonder about families who use a 16 year old girl with an autism spectrum disorder to get her so revved up over something neither she nor we have significant control over.
Climate has always changed or maybe one would call it a cycle. It changed before airplanes and cars and before the industrial revolution.
Lets get government out of the way and let industry help us find a solution to the small part man plays.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Tink Tank 7 年以前 1

The myth of “global warming gasses” will go down as the greatest hoax of modern times. It’s simply a method to consolidate power in the hands of the few. It’s simply Marxism’s new label.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Indeed Tink, indeed.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

DGR Rathborne 7 年以前 1

I can't believe how pessimistic and indifferent people are about our climate .

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Thomas Scally 7 年以前 5

I Can't believe how gullible people are about our earths climate.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Dr Stephen Vadas 7 年以前 4

Humans will not be able to do anything for our climate. It is just nature and evolution.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

I can't believe how gullible people are!

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bob Poberezny 7 年以前 1

Who fails to acknowledge (ultimately irreversible) climate change is scientifically illiterate and are unable to grasp entropy. I say this as a longtime scientist, engineer, atheist and commercial pilot, and primarily conservative exceptfor this aqnd 3 other issues - the right to choose, the need for separation of church and state, and LGBT rights.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Gary Bain 7 年以前 1

Climate change yes as a result of normal cycles. Man made global warming no. I'm not illiterate but I do do my research.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bob Poberezny 7 年以前 1

But the laws of thermodynamics show that at some point they cyclic nature will cease and the difference now is that human activity affects the amplitude of warming cycles. Research is only valid when it's willing to consider both sides of a question.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Edward Bardes 7 年以前 1

By that logic, all the excess CO2 in the atmosphere should eventually return to Earth; the first law states that energy is neither created nor destroyed.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Ian Campbell 7 年以前 1

Planning for the future while maximizing profits for shareholders ... at some point we need to choose to pay it forward ... but the materialistic culture persists for now. What will YOU teach to your children by example?

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Nathan Cox 7 年以前 1

I’m surprised everyone making comments has just accepted “climate change”, “global warming”, “the hole in the ozone layer,” etc... no one wants to mention the thousands of scientists and the original owner of The Weather Channel who question the science behind this new ‘religion‘ of a global problem we now call “climate change. It even has a new leader... This said, I’m all for less pollution (I’ve flown into New Delhi ð·)

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

SmittySmithsonite 7 年以前 1

"Climate Change" ... that moonbatty buzzword tells me I'd better click elsewhere.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

SmittySmithsonite 7 年以前 1

But, if one half of the voting population gets their way, many won't be able to fly anyway, so this will be a moot point at that stage. We're just one vote away ...

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Byron Russell 7 年以前 0

One can believe that the climate is changing but still decry the alarmists' hysteria as a money and power grab that is not likely to accomplish their stated goal of setting the Earth's thermostat precisely to an unchangeable temperature. And when some AGW proponents misuse graphs and data to support their position it casts their whole argument in doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvrsA0XlYGg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2R-VQUY5plt4eUbC6SC0zLSLydgoHar8i2vorTGiLsqWLNsNsQIOdV3x8

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Cindy Wilcox 7 年以前 0

Oh please ð

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

John Smythe 7 年以前 -1

They “They” say that CO2 levels haven’t been this high since 800,000 years ago.
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that there weren’t any airplanes back then.
And one thing “They” seem to forget is that 800,000 years ago “we” were in the middle of the last ice age.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Jake Vander Werf 7 年以前 -1

Here is something said by the One that created the earth, - "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease." Genesis 8:22
God has got it under control.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report

Bruce Atkinson 7 年以前 1

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

Bob Poberezny 7 年以前 -1

http://www.godisimaginary.com

回复 ↓•永久链接•Parent•Report

John Smythe 7 年以前 -3

Just our crappy luck. Stuck in the middle of a 97% natural climate shift.

回复 ↓•永久链接•Report