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Boeing’s 787 Choice Could Gut Washington State’s Aircraft Industry

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Hit hard by the collapse of the airplane market, Boeing will decide as early as next month whether to consolidate its two 787 Dreamliner assembly lines in Washington and South Carolina at a single site. If it does, the 30,000-employee widebody jet plant in Everett is expected to be the loser (www.seattletimes.com) 更多...

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gelrod2354
Mike Elrod 25
Being a life long resident of Charleston and doing frequent business in Washington, a consolidation to the east coast makes perfect sense. Personally I opposed Boeing coming to Charleston. More people, traffic, strains on infrastructure. As a business owner I saw it as a smart move. Government bent over backwards, right to work state, a lifestyle well suited to a new generation. Nostalgia does not make a company more competitive.
johnatwohy
John Twohy 3
looking at this story things one dream lifters are old planes plus they only could fly the 787-8, 787-9 fuselage size to Everett, plus Seattle want's to tax supervisors and engineers income. wouldn't be surprised if they end up moving 737 out too.
airuphere
airuphere 3
Not to mention the Charleston product has been rife with issue & defects as of late.
Senexus
Rick Boehlke 26
Unfortunate, but further to previous comments the negative politically charged business climate at City and State levels of government in Washington State is, and will continue to further financial and social incentives for any large employer to move on. In this case it's Boeing. And, the indicators clearly point to the possibility that Amazon is preparing for the same departure. South Carolina has created one of the most attractive business and lifestyle environments in the US.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 24
I've read the article . A few things strike me as givens . Boeing has Too many employees for the manufacture of very few aircraft . So lay-offs or terminations are obvious . When no Airline wants your product , what else can you do . As for moving what little production you still have to South Charleston , also makes sense . From the arial photo , it appears to be a Modern ,and expandable site . So if Boeing is going to invest for future production , then South Charleston makes sense . I recall when G.M. wanted to build a new Cadillac model , they left Flint , Michigan for the new and modern facility that was built . The devistation to Flint was brutal . But the question is if you have to plan and build for the future , then put your money in the newest plant . I doubt anyone will agree with me . But it's a sad truth ...........DGR
ltullos
Larry Tullos 6
This management team has made so many great decisions driven by financial their financial analysis, I'm sure this one will work out for them just as well.
tbpera
Tom Pera 5
oooh boy...right on! MAX? and how could they have screwed up a tanker?
Justthefacs
Justthefacs 6
Dangerous downtown Seattle and a mayor without a clue would be enough for me to vote move.
santan2020
Ronald Berry 20
Those in Washington did it to themselves but having strikes every so often. I’m not surprised that they would choose a state that doesn’t have that.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 0
The usual anti-union, anti-worker post.
devsfan
ken young 3
Anti union is PRO worker. Truth about unions and union leaders is they're first priority is the survival of the union. The workers are just the tool.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 1
The only reason you have work rules and the wages you do is because of unions. You're the tool.
westcoastguy
westcoastguy 2
old unions and their mentality thinking they can tell the employer how to run its business is not longer acceptable, no longer financial, all levels of society and governments now back this new norm including 68% of its union members now believe Unions are bad for the community and companies growth.

Millennial workforce now want rewards in incentives instead of pay increases, they want more free time off than outrageous overtime pay. They want a balance life that says I work to live today, not I live to work.

John Miller your days of ideas and personal opinions are numbered where it belongs in a senior care on the "How it Was".

your idea how things should be no longer benefits the union worker nor the mentality We stand together. Bigger the Numbers, bigger the lost to a community that the rest of the country is truly done with Boeing Unions.

Unions in the 1930s to the 1980s help create the labor code, today from the new Bills of Rights for the employees are now laws, Unions are no longer needed. Unions only protect those that should have been terminated from the workplace long ago.

Today youll find more people see Unions as a pig that eats away its memberships workplace income and gives nothing back when the employee as a perfect grievance that needs a legal attorney to fight a new manager whose been hired to change the labor code and the workplace morale so employees would quit from the stress.

Ive been in Unions, ive been a Union official on the Executive team for the bi-annual collective agreements conventions representing 89,000 union paid members for over 18 years.

Unions today are Unions employees no longer needs. The worse Unions are longshoremen who will shut down a nation to its knees and Civic City workers who terrorize its city with pipebombs when talks go into arbitration.

Everett Unions has had too much influence in local governments that it disrupts all other industries that have no direct connection with Boeing.

Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Homeland Security Offices , their logistics, their contracts with third party vendors are too affected by Boeing
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Before unions, you had 'The Church'! Competition for the donor bucks is always tough, and you guys seemed to get on the same side, vote wise, as soon as I posted that. Somebody else to bash. Maybe not, I don't vote much anymore cause (show anyway) still works for the message, or the obvious idiocy.

If, You don't get that the democrats ain't talked about a boot 'lickin' union' in 4 years, You have missed or misperceived much about whom they perceive to already 'be in their pocket'.

Don't know which side You are on, but I am on mine, and my own.
bentwing60
bentwing60 -1
The moral 'high ground' has long since been abandoned by those in Control and the lack of integrity and fidelity to the ownership of the mainstream media has long since dictated their role to terrify, divide and conquer, as the 'tools' they are intended to be. This site could be 'known as media' and it's not hard to tell why Nobody talks to their neighbor anymore. They would have to disagree in person and stand their ground for the position! FB, twotter, et.al. wouldn't have it any other way!

Go have a beer, or a stogie or whatever, be happy and leave us old timers here alone. Seems the first to admonish the crowd about how this place should not be about politics introduces the comment with a political statement slammin' me and conservatism.

Not the first guy here, but you may rest assured that DB has read a bw60 comment or two, that has been erased, virtually all conservative opinions.

Not hard to figure out how BLM/Antifa keep goin' while we all figuratively throw dog waste over the fence into each others back yard.
airuphere
airuphere 1
Yes teachers strike all the time and face no consequences. Agreed with John Miller.
tbpera
Tom Pera 11
unions can only survive if they keep telling their membership
"everyone else in your industry getting paid better than you" " everybody else works less hours" "everybody else gets better benefits" "everybody else has better retirement"... if they can't keep the carrot out front the members will know they don't need the union... take it from me... PATCO member 1981
soupy264
soupy264 6
Unions do not want a satisfied workforce, Happy, well paid workers do not need a Union.
franceinoregon
France Davis -9
The reason we have any happy, well-paid workers is because of unions!
devsfan
ken young 2
THat's 1950's union talk. Unions have aged out of their usefulness.
Union leadership has failed to adjust to the marketplace.
Over the last 25 years, the manufacturing sector workforce has rejected attempts by unionists to organize their places of employment.
Boeing is reacting to the forces of the marketplace. And now we can add in political difficulties.
Finally, the cost of living in the Charleston DMA is about half that of that in any part of Washington State. And no wacky leftist justice democrat politicians around to steal money from the residents.
drgratz
David Gratz 0
One wonders why that isn't obvious to the line workers? However, what is obvious is the fact that company threats create fear and that does threaten healthy solidarity.
chris13
Chris Bryant 15
I was living in Seattle when Boeing decided to open the plant in Charleston. From everything that was reported out there, it really seemed like management wanted to keep all the assembly in Everett, but the union forced their hand.
Now, it makes perfect sense to consolidate into a single plant, and Charleston is a much smarter move from a business perspective.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 11
The union is the cancer in business
Gorgonzola323
David Schneider 6
However; Washington is ranked 4 in quality health care, South Carolina 36, Education quality Washington 4, S.C. 42, College degree % Washington 11, S.C. 41. Violent crime rank, Washington 39, S.C. 9. On the other hand Clemson Would kick U of Washington butt.
UsualSuspect
Usual Suspect 5
What those statistics fail to point out is that it is the rural communities outside of Charleston that disproportionately drag down the average. In the Charleston area those numbers are completely different. Charleston has been ranked the best city in the US 4 times in a row by Travel + Leisure Magazine and hell, even the Gamecocks could beat U of Washington.
devsfan
ken young 2
Stats can be skewed by those with an agenda. Truth is Charleston is not the entire state. The metro area is a mix of the Old South architecture,and New South modern facilities and infrastructure. It also is a place where the far leftist political factions seen in Washington State dare not tread
user3956
user3956 0
Interesting, it looks like these are the indicators as to WHY things are cheaper in SC, the people living in the area are apparently...not of the same class (for lack of a better word). I lived in North Charleston for almost two years in 2000 and I thought it was an absolute sh_t hole.
UsualSuspect
Usual Suspect 6
It's crazy, once you left it got really better.
user3956
user3956 1
Touché, not bad. They DID complete the Cooper River Bridge afterwards so maybe that along with my departure accelerated things getting better ;)
UsualSuspect
Usual Suspect 2
Under budget and ahead of schedule. Go figure...
user3956
user3956 0
Yeah it does figure, it's pretty easy to deliver things cheaper when quality is thrown out the window like on the 787. At the end of the day North Charleston is a sh_t hole place to live and the 787 production line is known to turn out crap quality which is on par with the workforce in the area apparently.
devsfan
ken young 2
Blah blah blah...I've heard this same mantra from you supporters of labor collectives. "Union workers are the only people qualified to do anything"......
Then when union workers don't get it done correctly, they immediately fire off their standard cliche...."Its managements fault"....When the Big Dig tunnel in Boston had roof tiles dropping on the cars of motorists causing severe damage to vehicles and injuries to occupants, every single union representing the trades that worked in the tunnel released statements to the media blaming everyone but Tom Brady. So please, spare us the "you must kneel at the union altar" speech.
user3956
user3956 1
I neither am talking about unions nor do I give a rat's ass about them, I'm just pointing out the horrible quality reputation the SC facility has had and I notice you don't seem to want to talk about that...cool. Anyway why is it so hard for people doing their jobs to want to do them right in the first place regardless of if there is a union or not? Oh, that's right, SC employs on average lower skilled people who don't care. Cool, let's have SC build ALL the 787s and let's have them put out crap quality because it's cheaper. Great idea bro.
devsfan
ken young 2
You and many other newcomers to the south come here with a chip on your shoulders believing you are smarter and more sophisticated. I've lived in the south for over 30 years. Transplanted from that crime infested politically corrupt state of New Jersey. Quite frankly, Im sick of running into newcomers from up north who get here and bring their constant whining and complaining. I told one of these malcontents ( From Long Island) that I 95 and I 77 have northbound lanes, feel free to use them.
user3956
user3956 2
I dunno if it's necessarily a north/south thing when comparing the quality of work force and output between Washington and SC, but rather just a comparison of the groups of people in those particular areas and how it's affected 787 quality. If you think about it, the main reason for using SC in the first place was cheaper labor (among a few other things). What is the main cost of the labor being cheaper? Unions or no union...cost of living in the area...quality or skill sets of the employees...so by going with North Charleston (the shi_t hole that it is) Boeing KNOWS it's getting SOME of that discount because the quality or skill sets of the people there is lower. With mobility like it is these days, whoever can get paid more will usually go to the geographic area where they can get paid that higher amount (unless cost of living just obliterates the gain). People in North Charleston apparently weren't able to do that because they couldn't compete with the highest earning places in the country. In the end, you get what you pay for, Boeing has been paying less money in SC than Washington and has gotten less quality. It's difficult to try to ignore the correlation between labor cost and quality here. As for me, I've lived in WVa, SC, CA, and Texas mostly (DFW). Now I live in Saipan, so I would say I don't really identify with northern/southern, but if I had to it would be southern. I do hear you about northerners being assholes tho.
RRaty
R Raty 5
It is a delicate balance. Unions make it hard for companies to make a profit. Not having unions make it hard for employees to buy food. There has to be a compromise that is beneficial to all parties involved. Without a union, that usually doesn't happen.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 17
You run a company well with fair wages you don't need unions to be respected as an employee. There's many out there. It works out for the company too in the long run with low turn over and happy employees who care about a product.
user3956
user3956 8
You are correct, but unfortunately at corporate management levels too many people forget that and don't treat their employees right, which is why unions ever existed in the first place.
devsfan
ken young 2
Well, thats the common refrain we hear from the pro big labor left wing
user3956
user3956 3
I'd consider myself anything BUT left leaning, however after 20 years in finance I can tell you that it's always been the same thing in the end, IF management can screw you, they DO screw you. Never been a part of a union and I'm not necessarily advocating them, just pointing out the fact that the general trend in upper level management is to screw over anyone they can for a dollar - every last time.
segulin
Tim Segulin 13
Unions are a reaction to companies and industries who do not treat workers fairly. Both management and unions can become greedy and unreasonable.
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 3
The old Coors brewery in Golden Colorado is a good example of this; they actually originally paid better than union scale.
devsfan
ken young 2
Not true, Here is a chart of the distribution of wages across all manufacturing employees in Charleston. The lowest avg wage which goes to the lowest skilled workers is $47k, Keep in mind, the average salary across the board for both skilled and unskilled labor is around $37,5k....FOr skilled labor it is much higher. SO platitudes such as "unions make it possible to buy food" are not valid. In fact, Boeing and BMW in Greer( Upstate SC) deliberately pay more than local market wage to primarily attract the best candidates for employment, but also to keep the unions out.
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Boeing/salaries?location=US%2FSC
patpylot
patrick baker -3
i imagine you are not old enough to remember working without overtime, pensions, health care, 40 hour work week, training to do the job properly, - things taken for granted, but forgotten about as to how and when they came to be. "THe union is the cancer in business"- how ignorant, how foolish, how uninformed you are. If your mentality is bumper sticker length, how stupid you can look from time to time...
tbpera
Tom Pera 1
hey Patrick...you about 80 yrs old?
WilliamMonti
William Monti 23
Why would any sane company want to stay in a State that adopts riots as normal, that over regulates and hates those trusted to protect their workers.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 7
Couldn't have said it better
clarify
clarify -6
The right to free speech, the right to peaceful assembly -- in other words the right to protest -- are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution.

What I wonder is why some are trying to paint the incredibly numerous peaceful protests throughout the country as "riots". My concern is that some would like to recast protests as riots in order to deny people their rights.

I challenge you to name a single State or County or City that adopts or in any way embraces true riots.
BluSTi
James Willich 8
Seattle - 2020 - Jenny Durkan's "Summer of Love"
Seattle - 1999 - WTO "Protests"
Seattle - Every May Day - It's a regular occurrence
Senexus
Rick Boehlke 14
We shouldn't be naïve about all this "peaceful protest crap" defacing buildings, burning structures, ruining businesses. "come on man"
skylab72
skylab72 2
We shouldn't be naïve about those defacing buildings, burning structures, ruining businesses either. More often than not they are there expressly to insure mayhem to discredit the citizens actually concerned about civil society.
tbpera
Tom Pera 12
clarify....sorry.... a lot of these "free speech" peaceful protests are turning into full fledged riots....
fire, fireworks, broken burned cars and buildings... qualifies as "riots"... No one embraces them BUT,
they look the other way and allow them to continue
user3956
user3956 3
Have no idea how you can call them "peaceful protests" when time and again they are anything BUT peaceful. You can't destroy property and burn things down then call it "peaceful". These are RIOTS bro.
devsfan
ken young 2
The peaceful protests, far and few between, ended long ago. There haven't been any in months.
And actually, there is no "right to protest" anywhere in the US Constitution.
The document states in the First Amendment, "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Now, if you see anywhere in that sentence where "protest" is mentioned, have at it.
Assemble does not include disruption, blocking sidewalks or roads. It does not allow for gangs of people to go into residential neighborhoods and shine lasers and bright lights into people's homes, it does not include use of amplified voice or music to disturb , it does not include the issuing of verbal threats of "burning down homes" or killing of innocent people. It does not include allowing people to make demands that residents must "surrender their homes".
So, genius please tell me your version of a "peaceful protest"...I'm not seeing it
bobbolew
Robert Lewis 2
or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Could be construed as "protest". What I don't understand is the left wing nut job on CNN, Chris Cuomo asking where is it written that protests have to be peaceful. I'm thinking in the Constitution doofus.
rartac
Robert Artac 9
Driven by a virus? No, check the state business tax climate, that may be the cause of the ailment.
rartac
Robert Artac 0
Oooh wait, SC is 5%. WA is.471%. Yes.. 00471. Something is amiss here...
BluSTi
James Willich 8
The B&O tax in WA for manufacturing airplanes is 0.00484% (https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/business-occupation-tax/business-occupation-tax-classifications) but it's based on gross receipts. I'm no tax lawyer, but 5% of Boeing's net income might actually be lower than 0.00484% of gross. Especially if NC gave tax credits for various sectors of their income.
Airons
Allen Irons 13
I also can't blame them for having the opportunity to consolidate and get the heck out of a crazy state.
Olddrummer55
Mark Hanneman 9
Crazy for sure... My wife and I have decided to relocate OUT of WA when I retire in 2022. This state has turned into a mini-CA
tbpera
Tom Pera 1
and you don't want a mini-California...
PDLanum
Philip Lanum 1
Please leave now.
stratofan
stratofan 15
It used to be that I viewed Seattle as home to lumber, latte' LOONS, and Boeing. You cannot have anarchy in a region or city and not expect companies to sit idly by and do nothing. They have to have a safe as possible work environment for their employees. The region learned nothing after the riots at the WTO conference several years ago. I cannot fault Boeing for their decision. If they do consolidate, the only thing left could well be the latte' and LOONS!
dee9bee
dee9bee 15
Boeing will make a financial decision, not an emotional one.
BluSTi
James Willich 12
Unfortunately, Boeing seems to be making financial decisions where engineering decisions should be made.
devsfan
ken young 1
Emotions are not in play here. This is a business decision as well as a public/employee safety and security decision. If you believe Boeing management is not taking a good long look at not only the fiscal repercussions of a government that is far left, but also the anarchy taking place in Seattle and the incredible weakness of the City of Seattle and the King County governments and finally the spineless governor of Washington, you're simply not paying attention.
Seattle's business core is emptying out. And most of those businesses are not coming back.
bdjam
Brian James 5
Except there wasn't anarchy in Seattle
bobbolew
Robert Lewis 1
jmadunleavy
John D 3
And Lattes and loons are much to build a tax base on.
SiouxGreen
Colin Marrer 4
Your comment is pretty staggering. Not only do you display a complete lack of understanding surrounding Boeing's woes (pandemic, MAX, 787 debris, 787 engines, long term management, etc), it's clear that you didn't even bother to reference a map when speaking of riots. Something tells me that the riots in downtown Seattle are playing a pretty small role in what is happening 30 miles north in Everett. Good attempt though!
user3956
user3956 3
I've known tons of people that commute more than 30 mi to work...
devsfan
ken young 1
The issue of lawlessness in Seattle and the effect it has on the entire metro area is the focus. Plus, the leftist political leaders have zero interest in bringing the anarchy to an end. In fact, some of the very much far leftist officials in Seattle and surrounding communities encourage the mayhem
bentwing60
bentwing60 -1
A single comment in your purported long 8 month history on this site might indicate another gaslighter of the 'peaceful protester' movement and not a cogent response. In case you hadn't noticed, virtually the entire west coast is on fire, either politically or in fact, and even the soy boy Boeing set will at some point, leave an environment not suited to their further enrichment! A more poignant question might be, when will they leave Mayor Lori's bizarro world, and where would they Go?
SiouxGreen
Colin Marrer 3
My apologies for not being a full time troll. I spend my days contributing working, not posting on this website. I'm sure you've got lots to do though. And as someone who lives in Seattle, I have to say I disagree with the west coast being on fire. I just checked. No fires. I don't support the rioting and looting, but to say that Boeing has made any of these decisions based on that is insane and completely uneducated. Not sure why you're referencing "Mayor Lori" in a conversation about Seattle? Maybe you're confused...
bentwing60
bentwing60 -1
It's easy to 'just' downvote, so I appreciate the response. Chicago is on fire too and being fled by the 'taxpayer'. So who is at the helm!

A website with comments and responses may indeed separate folks on the same page. The trick is to sort the new troll from the new poster!

Been here long enough to notice and in the beginning of this site 'there were no trolls'. Cheers!
bobbolew
Robert Lewis 1
Maybe Colin doesn't realize that Boeing HQ left Seattle for Chicago more than a few years ago, and maybe he/she doesn't realize Lori Lighthead is the "mayor" of Chiraq.
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
maybe colin is a 'terd' and I say that (sic) cause' I have read a lot of fantasy and lefties are givin a hard workin' troll a bad name! I guess you can't say "call a spade a spade" anymore, but, terd is more accurate.
yr2012
matt jensen 1
I thought about it for a while. There has to be a winner and a loser. Everett will be the eventual loser in this battle. SC is better suited now, as the rioting hasn't ocurred there - yet.
ko25701
ko25701 6
Rioting on memorial day weekend in Charleston damaged 40 businesses and hundreds of cars. They shut it down quickly by actually arresting looters.
Olddrummer55
Mark Hanneman 7
Hmmm... arresting people who are breaking the law? That's a novel concept! Perhaps Minneapolis, Seattle and Portlandia should take note

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

redseaconsulting
Robert Mack 7
Easy there, bubba - my dad ran moonshine in the 30's, served his country on BB35, and became a successful businessman in agriculture (why, he even had a full set of original teeth). Respectfully, a proud, redneck son!! (USMC Vet / Expat Contractor)
SmittySmithsonite
SmittySmithsonite 2
Thank you for your service, Robert!
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 2
That will affect the real estate market at that location, where I used to operate. (I also used to work for Boeing, but down in Kent on the southside) I remember showing a nice new house to one lady up from California on a Tuesday morning at Everett when I had forgotten that that is the time to roll out a new 747 from the assembly building 1 mile away. First time to start up all four engines on a new plane. Well that totally turned off the California lady "Oh, gracious, am I going to have to listen to that all the time?" I assured her it was only once per week on Tuesday morning, but of course she didn't believe me.
JoshHekekia
Josh Hekekia 2
Its truly unfortunate what's happening to the airline industry and global travel in general. Global demand for air travel is not likely to return to what 2019 levels for the better part of this decade. Boeing is forced to make a hard decision that will affect our country for years to come. It's not political. Its just sad.
nasdisco
Chris B 4
With other reports indicating that Boeing will be left with over two dozen built but unsold 787's by the end of the year and as we all know massive expenses from the Max mess, I have to believe that Boeing will file Chapter 11 before the end of the year. If that is in discussions, I bet the election will figure prominently in the timing of the decision.

I'm a 787 fan and think its the aircraft best suited for international travel over the next few years.
Propwash122
Peter Fuller 6
Boeing’s own numbers as of end of June 2020 show a backlog of 535 orders for the 787: this indicates that the report saying they’ll have “over two dozen built but unsold 787’s by the end of the year” is not credible.
coghland
Denis Coghlan 4
Orders don't equal cash in the bank!
Not withstanding the deposits which are spent!
ko25701
ko25701 3
Cancelled orders, there is a cancel clause but the buyer looses millions in deposit money.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
I had read on the Fightaware news letter , is a clause in purchase agreements that if Boeing can't deliver an ordered aircraft with-in 2 yrs , The airline can walk away , with-out paying a penalty . This info was revealed only in regards to the fiasco with the B-737- Max aircraft . I just mention this , in case your interested .....DGR
pcaronlpcaron
Phil Caron 5
Please, let's remember that Boeing is still run by McDonald Douglas management and that all they care about are non union employees to assist in their management bonuses. They got rid of their good engineers in Everett which led to disaster with the Max, just like the DC-10. Let's also remember the poor quality issues from their SC plant where they were fined by the FAA for attempts to discourage quality control inspections. As long as Chicago is in charge, Boeing will eventually fail just like McDonald Douglas did, the writing is on the wall.
mrdot
LW P 2
Boeing is too big to fail. They'll get bailed out every time.
silcalifano
silverio califano 4
NO company is too big to fail.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
While it is generally true that any company can fail , there are certain industries that just can not be allowed to go away . Boeing is one of these companies . Also , at this time in History , with a pandemic and economies in deep trouble , letting go 10's of thousands of highly skilled and well paid workers , is something that can't be allowed to happen .....DGR
BluSTi
James Willich 3
I think Boeing's permanence has less to do with skilled workers and more to do with ITAR and keeping the DOD supplied with American made defense products.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
Hi LW P . It is true that Boeing is just to important for the US Gov't to let go Bankrupt . So the Gov't will save Boeing that fate . But do you remember only a few months back , Boeing was on the ropes , and hammered together with a few different banks and investment firms , a 10 Billion $ loan . Well Boeing got that money , and in only a short time , burned right through it . As for the US Gov't they are in a Pickle here . Not long a go , they screamed bloody murder when the European Union ( EU ) , lent AirBus 10 Billion Euro 's to keep Air bus alive .
The US was threatening to put tariffs on Airbus . I don't know if that actually happened . So with this back ground , what .... or more to the point is what does the US Gov't say , when it is forced to Bail out Boeing ? ........DGR
EdWaxhaw
Edward Owen 1
Hey guys, Where are the real aviation buffs here? It is "McDonnell-Douglas" not the fast food McDonalds that began in the LA area, I recall...
---from a non-avaitor who had a small engineering scholarship in about 1960 from
McDonnell-Douglas at Harvey Mudd College and a Skybolt missile tie-tac pin.
PDLanum
Philip Lanum 1
A little correction is needed here.

The Everett engineers were building the 777x and 787 versions.

The Renton engineers designed the 737-Max aircraft.

Boeing has little real integration between the Renton and Everett plants in terms of engineering. When I worked there in the 90's, in a group that worked with both sites we constantly referred to the
"Renton Airplane company" and the "Everett Airplane Company".

Lastly, the DC-10 was not designed by Boeing but by McDonald Douglas in California not Washington. No Boeing Engineers were involved with designing and building the DC-10 (Long Beach California).
pcaronlpcaron
Phil Caron 2
Hi Philip, just to clarify my DC-10 comment, the people that ran Long Beach's McDonald Douglas now run Boeing. So their attitude of profit before safety was carried through with the Max. Making their non unionized workers in SC work fast causes issues like lost tools in fuel tanks and other issues with the new tankers and the 787's. The consolidation of 787 production in SC reflects their intention to push their workers in faster, cheaper production of aircraft. Bad news for all concerned.
uapilot
David Wright 1
Wait wait. Have we already gotten past the point that Boeing completely violated the CBA and opened the SC plant despite agreeing not to do such?
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
hi David . I'm not familar with the term " CBA " . Could you tell me what this means ? Thanks Dave ....DGR
ddljr
ddljr 1
Collective bargaining agreement
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 1
Thanks Dave . This is an important bit of info . THANKS DAVE ......DGR
artpfe
Art Pfe 3
I can tell you from experience in a different industry how a union shop can bring a company to its knees. Restrictive work rules, skilled workers required to do unskilled work, excessive demands at the bargaining table. Slow wobble to get demands met(looks busy but not doing anything). And the ability to strike but impossible by law or circumstance to hire replacement workers(scabs). Huge strike funds available so striker feels no pain....etc etc. if the wrong worker,picks up the wrong tool...shop Steward called and work ceases for a while. Usually, when open shop competition hits, the union workers finally realise,that management and workers are in the same boat. Helpful when all try to keep the boat afloat.



)
richardtarr
Richard Tarr 5
No brainer really Charleston is and has been one of the best places in USA to work and live .A fantastic climate on the ocean
Great educational and heath care low crime and the culinary capital of the USA .
When Nikki Haley persuaded Boeing to come to Charleston she knew eventually it would become the main hub for production in the future .The quality of life low taxes and property prices would make it easy for key key workers to move in a heartbeat.
And the lack of union power of course make decisions easier to plan .
The acquisition of vast swaths of land around Charleston airport by Boeing indicates this has been in their planning for some time
ko25701
ko25701 2
You haven't priced housing in Charleston lately? $200/SQ foot is the regional average price.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 5
You haven't prices housing anywhere else, have you?
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 3
Best business climate. A hurricane could do some damage but other than that....
airuphere
airuphere 1
Yeah great to live - yet who is their product there having so many issues lately. Garbage left in holds - manufacturing defects.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 3
I don't get how producing the same plane in 2 different places is a good idea at all. Seems to me it would be much more efficient to do it in 1 place. Add a business unfriendly climate in Washington state and The outcome is easy to predict. You know it's bad if the only reason a company sticks with a state because of subsidies. Add the 737 fiasco and the covid downturn and big steps have to be made.
owllight5788
Patrick Rutten 3
A good business decision to get out of a Socilst City and State...just too bad the workers have to pay the price.
shfr
Steven Hofer 3
Amen. When will these radicals realized that their policies are ruining their respective economies.
GaAubie
Ken Hardy 2
The world has changed relative to commercial aircraft and quickly, both Boeing and Airbus must recalibrate, they are in the same boat and both are downsizing, it was a good run but its over plus the Chinese as set to start taking market share from both since the West has given the Chinese the technology to know how to build their own aircraft and flood the world market with cheap narrow body airplanes, The liberals in Washington could care less about preserving the US aircraft Industry, they only care about Green everything and to hell with jobs
Tuantran
Tuan Tran 1
The median list price per square foot in Washington is $237
srobak
srobak 1
And? They already own the facility.
JKMSEM
John Middaugh 1
It is sad indeed to see, a one time undisputed leader in the Aviation industry come unravelled by greed from all levels. The quest for the "money tree" has led to its demise. Charleston has so much more to offer, until the next hurricane.
backcut
R David Bauer 1
The union and work comp situation in Washington make this decision a no brainer
westcoastguy
westcoastguy 1
Everett workforce has always been cocky and narcistic creating bullish towards other manufacturers like Airbus and Bombardier to lose legal contracts in American soil.

Now that the subsidies are not longer on the table, Boeing needs to move all its operations financially out of Washington state and diversified. Its Armed Forces contracts should go to Florida and New Brunswick Canada. Its future 737 and any aircrafts built for 300 sea or less should seriously go to Toronto Canada. Its Dreamliner is good at its South Carolina but be better off in Massachusetts where the workforce and logistics are better for Boeing future.

The Unions in Seattle and in its States has been too stomach heavy, greedy union organization, a 230% slower production rate year after year, Union officials who have not worked physically making well over $200,000us a year is totally unacceptable when a huge part of that was tax payers subsidies. Seattle facilities should only be use for older aircraft upgrades modernizations and speciality modification for air force contracts. The Washington State facilities need a huge 600% ramp down if Boeing is to be successful after 2021.
yr2012
matt jensen 1
Only one question is does Boeing build a safer jet in Everett vs Charleston?
Corwest42
John Cordes 1
Boeing once led the World. A combination of internal failures, Globolist sponsoring Airbus, and the devastating affects of the Pandemic have crippled this Company. We need Boeing to succeed. It starts with a gut wrenching restructuring that allows for survival. It isn't pretty or popular but must be done. The Market will turn and Boeing tneeds to be fit and ready to seize the day.
srobak
srobak 1
With a 4 year backlog on 87s and a 2 year backlog on 37s I'm not quite sure how they think this is going to work.
pvlarry12
Larry Easton 1
Maybe the customer will speak up and help Boeing decide. ie: they will want their planes built in Washington more so than in Carolina. Or better yet, move to somewhere in Canada!!
lettini
Lois Lettini 0
Of course Boeing wants to move its plants to a "right to work" state!! As I recall, there were safety issues regarding their present plant in SC.
ko25701
ko25701 11
Petty crap the Unions always play the safety card. Unions are a once needed entity whose days are over.
SkyAware123
SkyAware123 9
bingo. Unions destroy businesses and are a waste of money. Thank god employees can now opt out of paying extortion fees to them.
computerjim
James Hiatt 0
Moving out of the Soviet of Seattle makes a lot of sense for the company. But it will be tough on the workforce. Shades of 1969!
croninj
JAMES CRONIN 0
Big money loves cheap labor. If Boeing could build aircraft in Bangladesh, they would.
GaAubie
Ken Hardy -2
If elected, Joe Biden could end this Boeing fiasco quickly by putting his son Hunter on the Boeing Board so they would have some expert guidance on the International Aircraft Market.
casey0999
Scott Sample 0
I understand the economic argument, and even to some-extent the union bashing, but not sure I'd want to live in S. Carolina. (my sister lives there) You'd have to get used to the awful weather (except at the shore), and the lack of physical beauty that we have out West here. Just lots of trees and bugs. I won't even get into the lack of competent leadership, for example the recent dumb decisions made regarding Covid-19. The people are nice though.
user3956
user3956 1
Yeah I think a ton of people commenting here have never actually witnessed southern heat or anything about living in SC. North Charleston isn't exactly on the beach either, you'd really need to drive to Mt Pleasant to be close to Isle of Palms or any decent beach. I lived in SC for almost 2 years and I thought it was a horrible place to be really, maybe for a couple of weeks on vacation just on the beaches, but to live full time was terrible.
Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling -1
If they only respected unions, and providing their employees with a living wage, and a safe place to work. Employment has become more like economic slavery in this country. Like Amazon. Bezos is worth more than ever, even after this pandemic, and yet Amazon workers still lack access to personal protective equipment, and overtime pay. After all the quality issues tracked to the South Carolina plant, I'd say their excursion into ditching unions hasn't gone so well.
michaelk2311
Michael Kelly 2
Did you read the article? This is about Boeing, not Amazon. I'm sure Boeing provides more than a living wage. I would guess most employees live very comfortably. Also, there are quality control issues everywhere. That's what happens when workers become disgruntled. As for the unions, just ask the bean counters which make more sense.
Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 2
My point was: Boeing does not value their workers, they value the money they earn through their (slave) labor. With the many issues with tools, shavinge, fasteners, and more, stuck in Boeing planes, they have a BIG problem with employee moral and 'buy in' to their agenda. THAT is a problem. The workers know what's going on. They are expendable, and they KNOW it.

Same with Amazon employees. They are tired of being treated like livestock, only existing to build up Bezo's fortune. THAT is why the GOP has been forcing people to work now, and trying to bar unemployment to people that refuse to go to work at factories and office where ownership/management deny the very potential for people to be infected, sicked, and potentially die.

Yeah, Bezos IS related to this. Greedy corporations will exploit EVERYONE that refuses to stand up for themselves. There was a reason unions came into existence, and the GOP and 'investor class' had damn well take heed, because there could be a renewed call for unions that represent the workers, and fight for them. The pendulum has swung too far to the other side, and workers shouldn't take it.

But anyway. As long as the 'investor class' gets their money, all is well. Doesn't matter where it comes from.
Mmeyers7167
Michael Meyers -3
All the southern states are right to work states so they know they can reduce their personnel expenses by 40% by heading south. They can also make all their employee’s independent contractors and further cut personnel expenses. As a Boeing stockholder I want to see both of those things happen.
tbpera
Tom Pera 4
cost of living there reduced 40%, too!
croninj
JAMES CRONIN -2
"Delivering shareholder value" is codespeak for "Screw the employees as much as you can." Just wait until Boeing slashes wages for the workers in South Carolina.
tbpera
Tom Pera 3
got out of pharma sales when it became all about stock price and not about patient care
stofer
Pat Barry 0
Perhaps Boeing management is still smarting from the crippling strike of employees at Everett, many years ago. That memory would certainly affect my management decision, for example, but I don't work at Boeing.
That strike cost Boeing huge money, delayed needed aircraft deliveries, and hurt suppliers and everyone down the chain. Surely this will be considered when choosing between hostile Everett unions and relaxed non-union Charleston?
Crash501
Les Ede -1
boeing got too big for its britches... They want to run the aircraft world and are doing a terrible job. The air force magazine I subscribe to said that the go date for the KC-46 has been moved out to 2024... That is a lot of garbage... Its because boeing can't seem to get the bugs out of this aircraft. The Air force should have taken Airbus when it first won the contract and Boeing cried a river and got the contract then killed people with their screwed up aircraft.In my HO Boeing should not build anything anymore...
tbpera
Tom Pera 3
unbelievable that they could screw up a tanker... they built tanker versions of 767 for other countries...what goes on here? Boeing and AF trying to "gold plate" everything and use untested tech...

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